Tuesday, May 22, 2007

Bit fit aboot Doric? Ken?

I'm nay affa happy i day. I wis hayin' a geck at a quine's blog fae Utah an she hid an interestin post tellin ye ah aboot a new Wikipedia in Scots. That'll be just gran ah thoucht an so ah clicked on her link tay see it.

Oh its affay fine and bonny. Its just grand. Bit its nay. Can somebody tell me fit wye they wid hay a hale wikipedia site on Scots an in Scots weeoot ony mention o Doric?? There's even a post on Aiberdeen weeoot onythin on Doric. Bit they gang an and an aboot Scots Lied and Lawlands Scots. I'm likely aboot tay offend some peer crater but ... fa spicks Lawlands ony mair? It smacks o central beltism - they dinna realise foo mony folk there are that dinna live atween Edinburgh and Glasgow!!

Doric is the dialect spoken in the North East of Scotland. I grew up speaking it, my maternal side of my family speaks it and it is still very much in existence. It has long been a neglected form of Scots - relegated to the stereo-types of North East Choochters - or "farmers". There is a lot of North East culture that has been overlooked or never leaves the small enclave of the Grampian mountains. I am appalled that there should be a "Scots" wikipedia without Doric.

If only I was computer savvy - I'd get onto the site and post an article on Doric ....

So if there is anyone out there computer savvy from the North East please rectify the situation for me!! Thanks


A Paperback Writer said...

After your comment on my blogpost, I added a lengthy comment explaining that Scots has many varieties and that even Scots dictionaries typically have several variations for most words. I feel stupid that I hadn't commented at all on the choice of Scots by the author of that Wikipedia article. True, I don't speak Scots (in any variety), but I understand spoken Lallans well and can read most dialects of Scots (even Auld Scots, but I need a diciotnary for that). Plus, I've studied a fair amount of linguistics relating to Scots (I had to for my dissertaion).
Please note that the most commonly available "teach yourself Scots" CDs and books are the LUATH versions, which lean heavily toward Doric. (And, no offense, Kirsty, but some of the lingustic studies I read had some strong feelings against that -- so I can only assume that this is a hot topic.) My favorite source, as a foreigner trying to grasp the basic differences was the Scottish Language Resource Center's Scotspeak, which focuses on urban Scots in Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, and Aberdeen. The book comes with a CD that features 5 or 6 recordings of natives (of different ages and socio-economic levels) from each city talking about their jobs or homelife in a relaxed setting. The book contains transcripts of each interview and analyses of the pronunciation differences. It is an objective linguistic study of four signifigant variations.
Do keep in mind also that it is only recently that scholars (even Scottish ones) were willing to classify Scots as a language rather than a "bad" dialect of English (although I suspect many of the English still think of it as the latter, but we won't go there), even though Scots and English (which both evolved from Anglo-Saxon or Old English, although Scots had strong Scandinavian influences, as well as bits of Celtic and French influences that are missing from modern English) have more differences between them than Norwegian, Danish, and Swedish do among themselves (or at least so I read in about 6 different books on the subject).
Anyway, I'm sorry I linked my blog to a website without explaining things better. I promise not to leave my readers uninformed again.
And thanks for posting in Doric. I like reading it. :)

Cursed Tea said...

hiya pprbckwrtr

I wisna blamin you ava!!! Mare the idiots in the central belt!!!

I also did English Language as half of my degree and did a bunch on Scots - I actually came to the conclusion that Scots is not a separate language but a dialect of English (controversal I know!! - I've had many an argument with my Mum over this...). I was just pissed to find them neglecting a whole part of Scots that is alive and kickin and gets over looked all the time because it isn't spoken between Edinburgh and Glasgow!!

Thank you so much for bringing this to my attention - if anything it'll maybe make me post more stuff in doric!!

Best Wishes

Gwen said...

As an idiot from the central belt:) I can understand the Doric but can't actually use it myself. I think you should now start an online campaign to give Doric the recognition it deserves.

Katie said...

Wow. And I thought I had trouble understanding Glaswegians. :)

adrastos said...

Damn, Katie stole my Glaswegian joke. You Scots are starting to scare a lowlander like me. How about this for a post title: From Salmon to Salmond.

Btw, CT. Why no link on the NO blog to the TP article about Symphony Boy? Unless, of course, you're out of town...

Cattie, Severin Books said...

The Scots Wikipedia's gey new an there's nae muckle on there yet ava, gin ye ging on the main page an see aa the stuff they're sikkin. I hinna the time nor energy ivnoo tae tak on screivin a Doric airticle, an nae doot there'd be some stramash aboot caain it Doric raither than Nor Aest Scots, but it's representit a bittie wi a Scots Screivers page on Sheena Blackhall.
An at least noo that Maureen Watt MSP took her aith at Holyrood in Doric, there's a mention o that, so it micht gie some incentive tae mair fowk tae contribute tae the Scots Wikipedia.

Cursed Tea said...


Thanks affey much fir comin by tay see ma!! I dinnae ken aboot Maureen Watt - that's great!! Ah bet she raise a few eyebrows!!Div you read the Leopard by onny chance? My Mums hid quite a few stories published in doric an Ah winnered if yid seen 'em an fit ye thoucht oh them. She's steered up quite a stooshie we some folk - there nae kailyard type stories bit real an some nae affay happy!
Ah'll hae to keep lookin at the wikipedia tay see if onyone else adds mair on doric - or "nor aest" scots - or maybe the "fit, far, fan" language?? ... :)
Ah think ony time ye write in doric ye create a bit o a stooshie - Ah dinna think it can be helped...

And for all my non-doric reading readers, I promise I'll do a post on "doric" and what all the idiosyncrancies are soon!!
ps - Katie, Adrastos sorry I scared you!! But you didn't think I just came with an accent did you?
now repeat with me the (in)famous phrase:
"If its not Scottish......"

Cursed Tea said...

Cattie - an Ah hivtae mine an really look affa closley fan Ahm proofreadin ma doric - Ahm nae affa guid at it thi noo...
Tak Care o yersel

Cattie, Severin Books said...

Ay ay, Kirsty -
Bin ower lazy the past filie an hinna seen Leopard for a gey lang time. I'll keep a look oot.
It can be a gey chauve for onybody screivin in Scots - nae jist aa the cairry-on aboot "correc spellin o't" (nae sic thing, imho, an certainly nae worth gettin yer draaers in a dirl aboot), but the fac that maist publishers winna even look at ye.
Onywey, thanks for yer comment on Ootlins, an I micht come roonby here again, an see if we can gie mair sooth-moothers a fleg wi wir unintelligible spikk. :)
Aa the best,

Cursed Tea said...

The "sooth moothers" are baith american!!
come by onytime quine!!

Aa the best

Derek said...

Maist o the fowk contreebutin tae the Scots Wikipedia are aether Doric spikkers, Borderers or Scots lairners. "Central Belters", eejits or itherwise, dinna seem tae be sae interestit in warkin on it, tho there are ane or twa. A'm ane o the foonders an contreebutors an, like yersel maist o ma faimlie on baith sides are Doric spikkers at hame, sae whan A pit onythin in the Wikipedia A've nae chyce but tae pit it in Doric syne A dinna ken onythin else. Whit micht be leadin ye astray is that aw the Wikipedia editors contreebute wi the ae staundard Scots spellin. Sae if ye didna ken the richt wey tae sey "wh" or "i" in Doric, ye micht think that A wis writing in Central Scots. I can assure ye, that if ye heard me reading the airticle oot lood, ye'd hae little doot that the maist o the Scots Wikipedia wis written in Doric. The lave o't is quasi-Scots written by Scots lairners and needs reddin up but nae apolgies. We're short o fowk that can contreebute at ony level and we're nae sae prood but that we'll tak wha we can get.

In fact we're aye aifter mair contreebutors that can actually spik Scots, (Doric spikkers by preference since Doric is the healthiest Scots dialect an it's far mair likely that Doric spikkers actually ken the richt wey tae spik Scots), sae if ye dinna like the wey that we're daein things ay noo, we'd be richt glad if ye'd jine us and help tae set things richt.


Derek Ross